piper cheyenne 400ls problems

The much-maligned SAS system gave us no trouble whatsoever after we changed the SAS vane from an earlier type with a single heater to the newer type with two electric heaters. Theres a loophole in the regulations, in that there is no requirement for long-period dynamic longitudinal stability, only one for static stability. ].i{R8:eozN./s+rSr}_" F"hBbA*9.H[bAF,%VxEp!deBBYaf9'g%FKF8x{SCZ Q0n=\CN*k5h._5cg)xw`u4 Jl3lHPEt Ive talked to several experts. [3], Due to its top speed over 400 mph, it was renamed the Cheyenne 400LS when Lear Siegler owned Piper, then the Cheyenne 400. The fuel system can be monitored through several gauges on the instrument panel through a dual needle type fuel quantity indicator, two fuel flow gauges, and two fuel pressure gauges. Are these big-engine Cheyennes as fast as they say? Pete Bedell is a pilot for a major airline and co-owner of a Cessna 172 and Beechcraft Baron D55. Owner is Motivated and will entertain offers. That is a fair description of the original Cheyenne. Powerplant | (2) 1,000-shp Honeywell TPE-331-14, Takeoff distance over 50-ft obstacle | 2,325 ft, Landing distance over 50-ft obstacle | 2,317 ft. Get extra lift from AOPA. Both the II and IIXL can carry eight. Indeed, the 1980 Cheyenne, which was What could. Dicks monthly Gear Up celebrates the human side of flying. It is derived directly from the Cheyenne III series, but utilizes the far more powerful TPE331 engines with four-blade propellers which produce significantly faster airspeeds than its predecessors. In the meantime, look for a pair of low-time engines (either -11s, -28s or, improbably, -135As) that we might pick up at a great price. But Ill tell you honestly, I still crave that 400LS! HUMo@W19t]TYjP &1=HR HucfsO%pH/PKI-Ac@UMVpV" euht/V.:zM#5&&N3Degj\_4%:!8OPqbU:~077fa@" Y It was costly close to $40,000. Torque limiters protect the engines from injudicious applications of power 1C::_DbFgQPF:y$mtC1EwBR}Ui`*DQh&KSPm{hnh'ZSO,4E=Tg:v(Npx.:I'=. The Cheyenne 400LS is powered by a pair of Honeywell/Allied Signal TPE331-14-801 . Cheyennes I and II were manufactured from 1978 to 1983. Right now parts support is very good. Feature, October 2020 Issue Electrical wiring, especially connectors and even some fuses, were a nightmare to troubleshoot because each one was a bit different and many junctions were in hard to reach parts of the airframe. In the worst accident in terms of loss of life, seven people were killed when an ATP took off in a IIXL and tried to scud run but hit the side of a mountain. This is an invitation to disaster, because it can easily put weight too far aft. He writes about his enthusiasm for both the machines and the people who fly and maintain them. You've disabled JavaScript in your web browser. The Cheyenne is no slouch in the cruise department, either. 0000005105 00000 n As a result, the passengers either froze or cooked, and there never seemed to be a good fix for that. In the case of the Meridian and the TBM, the airplanes are still in production, an important consideration when it comes to parts. 1984 - 1991 PIPER PA-42-1000 Cheyenne 400LS - Planephd Accidents The two most notorious Cheyenne accidents were original PA-31Ts involving longitudinal control-the much maligned SAS system. The other three Cheyenne models, the III, IIIA, and 400LS, dont really fit into the entry-level category. Significant improvements were made throughout the product line in terms of maintainability, rational human factors-oriented redesign and in overall quality. 0000144133 00000 n The greater the speed displacement, the heavier the pull. But unless something wonderfully unforeseen happens to our finances, I just dont have the cash. by a remarkable 60 knots to well over 400 knots. With the optional tip tanks installed, the fuel capacity is increased to 390 U.S. gallons. Of course, you need bigger props too. Quick Look: Piper Cheyenne 400LS - AOPA A true performer (Single Pilot) that resembles Jet Performace for half of the fuel burn and operational cost. What Does a Pilot Require To Remain Current in an Aircraft Requiring a Type Rating? Login Dealer Login Register . This trait can be traced to the Cheyennes roots in the Navajo airframe. Generally speaking, operators of the original version should make a dedicated commitment to good initial and recurrent training, rigorous pre-purchase inspection and evaluation and make sure they find a very qualified maintenance technician and shop. claim might be true. Parts availability for older Cheyennes hasn't been a problem. There is no major pattern. The imposing view is not just eye candy, eitherthis airplane has the performance to back it up. As with all turboprops, minor variations-as little as ten to twenty-five RPM-in RPM from normal cruise settings can work wonders in sound level, sound quality and vibration. In this condition, you could take off, climb to 29,000 ft, cruise at 250 KTAS or so, and have an IFR range of about 1,170 nautical miles and an endurance of 4 hours 30 minutes. Problem with instalation. His insight on actual ownership cost would be insightful. shows that this is clearly a problem. [3] It can climb directly to FL 410 at its 12,050lb (5,470kg) MTOW and typical single-pilot BOWs are 7,8507,900lb (3,5603,580kg). the finished product this month. History Whether internal disagreement affected development or not, the Cheyenne had a long gestation period. Today, my wife and I are the proud owners of N7222F, a 1987 PA42-1000. 0000011689 00000 n power setting above this will start sliding the tyres. We are not well pleased with the parts availability. It successfully smashed all the records in its class and set overall records to 6,000 and 12,000 meters. Click here to view the Piper PA-31T Cheyenne features guide. The Cheyenne IA was introduced in 1983. The starter-generators are 1,000-hour scheduled maintenance events. A smaller-diameter, five-blade propeller is available via STC. One famous such move was to call in Ed Design work on the Cheyenne began in 1965 as a turboprop-powered version of Pipers Pressurized Navajo. Building a turboprop isnt as simple as hanging a pair of PT6s on a piston airframe, as Piper found out with the Cheyenne. The Cheyenne IIXL, manufactured from 1981 to 1984, is basically a Cheyenne II with a 2-foot stretch all of it forward of the main spar. The confusion started when Piper introduced a lower powered, lower cost turboprop and called it the Cheyenne I (PA-31T1). ]m3IfeRCo~*k#'1LT=LzV_eWs4zSbXA? PDF B/CA Analysis: Piper's Cheyenne 400LS 0000094113 00000 n Maximum operating weight is 500 pounds higher than the Cheyenne II. Speeds in excess of 400 MPH, 41,000 Foot Ceiling. On the other hand, one engine burns less gas, has only one prop, etc. The Price for Power - FLYING Magazine Major design revisions were made, and in October 1969 the prototype PA-31T-essentially a PA-31P with turboshaft engines-flew. Many of the problems are reflected in service letters, bulletins (and, frequently, remedial kits. PIPER CHEYENNE SERIES For Sale - Used & New 1 - 8 - Trade-A-Plane y {_E(Z@4hFjilTiz.2G9|!$V|v\M^"Kc!!$w%WV1pm\1QD(IjEobuV>-7=]ns+sImz[Shx ! Instead of competing with Cessna by But it was too late to start the Cheyenne from scratch. strengthened and lengthened, the props are huge paddle-blades with a The PA-31T3 is a hybrid of the Navajo Chieftain (unpressurized) fuselage with the flying surfaces and engines of the Cheyenne I. Serial Number: 425527026. less runway, climbs and cruises faster than many pure jets. Weve done the interior its still beautiful and painted the airplane in colors we like. I find this overhaul prospect both financially frightening and, in another sense, slightly ironic. The comments in the accident brief note that the regular pilot refused the trip because of the weather. of propeller clearance. The Cheyenne I is powered by two Pratt & Whitney PT6A-11 turboprop engines, each rated at 500 horsepower and with a maximum propeller speed of 2200 RPM. 0000042996 00000 n The massive Dowty-Rotol composite propellers are expensive and have only eight inches of ground clearance, leading to erosion problems. Although becoming an Earth-rounder has been postponed by the COVID-19 crisis, we are looking forward to completing the mission in a post-pandemic world. Designers there basically did whatever it took to accomplish something without a great deal of attention to whether it was the best way to achieve the objective.This attitude was reflected in basic systems and fabricating techniques as well as in cockpit organization and interior fittings. As stated above, a normal phugoid will damp itself out eventually. Heck, this is less then the price of some Saratogas out there. The instructors will put the pilot through aft-loading drills in the simulator, as well as many other things that are life-savers. %PDF-1.2 % PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Reviews | Explore Available Aircrafts! While there are variations with equipment options, when lightly loaded cg is toward the forward limit and the airplanes are nose heavy. to redesign the interior for greater actual. Therefore, every Cheyenne I or II pilot I know carries either 75 or 100 pounds of lead weights in the nose to keep the plane from sitting on its tailskid and to keep it within the legal center-of-gravity envelope. The airplane has two imposing TPE331-14 engines, each capable of producing 1,600+ SHP de-rated to 1,000 HP at its five-bladed MT propellers. 0000042969 00000 n Late in 1966 a Navajo was ferried to Edward J. Swearingens facility for installation of a pair of PT6A-6A engines. PDF Piper PA-42-1000 - McFarlane Aviation Full power is set for takeoff and can be maintained all the way up to altitude and cruise. I remember reading a Richard Collins column years ago in which he described the number of yellow legal pads he used up while deciding on the Cessna P210 he ultimately bought and flew for 8,000 hours. This is the only COMPLETE (RVSM,FULL PAID MSP) AVAILABLE! The aircraft is not the easiest to keep straight on the centre line. That problem is the phugoid stability. Even though there is an emergency backup to the SAS (a compressed air cylinder that imposes maximum nose-down force on the downspring), SAS is a no-go item on the PA-31T. The majority of the Cheyenne 400LS aircraft were fitted with nine seats, including a potty seat that can be completely enclosed by an accordion door neatly hidden in its furniture cabinet. It outperformed all turboprops and even Cessna Citations of the day with 351 KTS at 25,000 feet (or 290 KTS at 41,000 feet) on 60 gallons of Jet A/hour, and a range of 1,800-plus nm with IFR reserve. More recently, former Piper test pilot (and frequent Aviation Consumer contributor) William P. Kelly Jr. discussed the issue in a letter (February 1, 1988). Wind ADCAAAv3X23,ft0>!A ,/dtD'0` lC$hPgso25M```-'AAy6cl 33f\5Q[7nlSzRNL`@%#K .2, Y7o 0000022670 00000 n If that doesnt work, think about the single-engine turboprops. A23SO", Piper Aircraft News Release: Extended Range for Cheyenne IIIs (1980), Piper Aircraft News Release: Cheyenne III Deliveries Underway (1980), https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Piper_PA-42_Cheyenne&oldid=1126671308, Short description is different from Wikidata, All Wikipedia articles written in American English, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 10 December 2022, at 16:32. Ours is one of only 44 total Cheyenne 400LS models built by Piper Aircraft between 1984 and 1992. 0000010782 00000 n The Cheyenne 400LS is usually configured to seat a pilot and seven passengers with an additional passenger occupying the right seat on the flight deck, if desired. Radar and known-icing equipment are. The Piper Cheyenne 400LS is uniquely positioned to adapt to our various missions in payload, distance and speed. Most are not repetitive. been approved for five bladed scimitar propellers from Hartzell, which To me theyre a lot. Once transition is complete, the basic task of flying is fairly simple so long as you keep everything within the envelope (although many pilots have commented on the pitch sensitivity of the PA-31T even with everything in bounds). 0000022086 00000 n No one seems to be able to explain the reason. Designed to provide a lot of performance for a comparably low price, the much-maligned Cheyenne still is a relative bargain for the kerosene crowd. [2], In the late 1970s, Piper avoided developing a clean-sheet light business jet to compete with the Cessna Citation I and upgraded its PT6As from 720 to 1,000hp (540 to 750kW) Honeywell TPE331-14s. Flew one of these from Seoul, South Korea to the US (via Eastern Russia). Big PT6-135As, bursting with 750 horses each, can be bolted onto the Cheyenne I. It was completed in November. All Cheyenne 400LS Aircraft Now Have Available RVSM Solutions Besides, in 10 years of ownership, our potty (I really dont like this term shouldnt we just call it a relief bowl, or something like that?) Physical dimensions are the same as the PA-31T except that the basic airplane wingspan is two feet shorter (40 feet, 8 inches versus 42 feet, 8 inches) because in standard form it does not have tip tanks (although most purchasers opted for them). 0000093501 00000 n 2023 Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, Max Operating Speed see POH for speeds above listed altitudes. When the Cheyenne was first tested, it did not have the required traits in the climb configuration; little or no back pressure was needed to maintain 100 knots even when the aircraft was trimmed to 110. The early Cheyennes were later refined with some aerodynamic improvements, but the PT6-28s produced only 10 to 15 percent faster cruise speed than their piston siblings and at a much higher fuel consumption. PA-42 Piper Cheyenne 400LS for FSX - Fly Away Simulation The first Piper Cheyenne was flown in 1969 by essentially hanging two PT6 turbine engines on the Mojave. In ground handling and during cross-wind operations it is especially troublesome, since it fights the desired control inputs. If a person wanted to do that in a Cheyenne II, he could simply self-limit the -28 engines to the 500-HP output of the -11. On the other hand, we were totally unprepared for the $4,000 annunciator-panel repair, the frequent heater and air-conditioner repairs and the little valve that controls the bleed air pressure to the boots and gyros that goes for $6,500 and sits under the floor in the passenger compartment. Cabin seating is commonly arranged in a four-seat club with three additional seats available. This seems like a time for study, contemplation, analysis and thoughtful decision-making. 8 answers and 5413 views Jun 15 2004. Most of us know the addictive qualities of aso.com, controller.com and Trade-A-Plane. This is more a nuisance than a problem. launched with a pair of Pratt & Whitney PT6A-41 engines, was supposed to Maximum speed for extension of the first notch of flaps (15 degrees), or Vfe, is 181 KIAS. be a direct competitor to the staid Beechcraft King Air 200. A friend and I seriously considered a Cheyenne a couple of years ago and I still think a Merlin would be a decent choice for what were doing.